Survey: Yatse future, give your opinion!

survey
#79

I paid when I saw the changelog saying the apps future was in jeopardy.
I voted for paid app with trial although I wouldn’t offer a trial just let the google refund period be the route for people to make up their minds. Perhaps when you updated the app to paid only have a 50% reduction for the first month so the free users find it easier to swallow.
Having two apps, one simple one that’s just the remote may give people the wrong impression of the app overall.
In terms of new people finding you I’d create either a kodi app or a repository with cross promotion between that and the remote.

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#80

If the price is reasonable, I’m okay with anything except for a recurring payment/subscription model, unless there is also an option for a perpetual license. Also would love the app on iOS and would certainly buy it.

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#81

Hello Tolriq,

I’m a long-term and daily user (with Yatse Unlocker). Another developer has chosen a dual strategy: https://medium.com/@tibbi/some-simple-mobile-tools-apps-are-becoming-paid-d053268f0fb2. Perhaps this a solution for you too. Since I’ve removed Google apps ans services (no Google account), I cannot use the streaming features anymore, because the Unlocker is not recognized by Yatse (FAQ suggestions don’t work). So maybe you could offer a the PRO version for F-Droid store too.

Otherwise, 5 to 8 Euros fee per year would be fine with me. The problem is: How to get the payments over F-Droid / Play downloads? I know that some developers offer payment over bank transactions, after the payment you get a passcode that you need to fill in the app settings. Afterwards, the PRO features are unlocked.

I hope you will find a good solution that fits most user’s needs. Ads are the worst option in my point of view.

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#82

Hey Tolriq, first of all thanks for this great app! I’m using it for years and years and would continue to do so happily if you chose to go the subscription route.

IMHO that would be the most logical path. Continuous usage = continuous payment. One time payment and 20 years of usage is unfair to devs. That way, with every time the app is being used, price for the user is reduced and your continuous work isn’t paid anymore. That doesn’t make any sense. I’m an it guy and I know what effort it takes to keep a good app up & running.

As I said, suscription does make sense to me. If I continue to use a product which is being developed further and looked after by someone, I pay for it. If I stop using it or kodi / change for something else, I cancel my subscription. Common logic. Fullstop. Pay for what it’s worth while using it. Even more so, if this will keep the app ads free.

I paid for the legacy unlocker, some 4-6 years ago. Don’t even remember how much. But anyway, not enough given the effort you continue to put into this app. This project is well worth to be kept alive.

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#83

I did not vote because i did not like any proposals.
How about become fully open source like Kore and use parallel distribution plateform like F-Droid ?

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#84

Okay, I’ve read this entire thread, along with many of the links. I think I now understand the difficulties you have.

TL; DR: Two versions. Trial that locks out many functions/brings ads in after trial, plus a fully unlocked version for a one time payment.
Please read further if you have time.

I have two main points to make but I recognise only one of them is directly relevant here so I will start with that…

I currently use the free version but will be changing that very soon (as well as posting my reasons in the suggested thread).
I agree with other posts saying you offer too much for free (I never thought I would say that to any coder!). I see so many developers make an amazing app that everyone is happy to use and recommend, then, for many possible reasons, they turn their users into numbers and apply a financial value to them. Usually this leads to the app becoming flooded with ads. Thank you for fighting ads at every turn.
Ads can have their place so, as long as they are minimal and unobtrusive, I could accept them on a free app. Removing adds should unlock all features. For your app, paying to remove adds but not gaining full features would likely make people think Kore is better for them as it is free and “official”.
Could you do this:
Compare your app with Kore and provide a few more features for free than they do, OR allow all features but only control one device?
Then provide the fully unlocked version for a decent one time price?

These options don’t fix your main issue but I have a suggestion that might. I use Patreon as an example here.
You said that you are proud of your monthly updates and you can’t provide any Patreon only advantages.
You also said that many apps are games that get lots of money from only a few people.
Is there a reason you can’t restrict the Play Store versions to only 1 or 2 updates a year but allow Patreon backers access to the latest updates and features every month? This way the fans who really want to support the development can get something for doing so.
Surely Google would be happy to get their cut of people unlocking the functions/removing adds and can’t tell you how to fund your development cycle?

Now, the second point I spoke off.
Please see this as an observation, not an attack.
There are many possible ways to approach people but I have witnessed a few occasions where you appeared to view feedback as a personal attack against you.
I’m not here to tell you how to live, but I do feel like you have become unable to see the difference.
For your sake, and the sake of this great app, I (honestly and with great respect) hope you can separate the two more in your mind.

Sorry for such a long post. Thank you for reading this far. I hope you can see my only aim is to assist you. I will do whatever is in my power to support you and this app.
I wish you the best of luck in everything.

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#85

Yatse already offers a millions more things for free than the bad clone, and does offer 100% of what they offer since they never innovated :wink:

I can’t push APK update outside of Play Store for the backers as it would be against Google rules, it should be fully outside Play Store but then no purchases on the store and lost of current licences. This is not really possible :frowning:

Splitting the app in 2 more or less similar apps is in fact against Google policies, I’m trying to figure out details about that if it’s possible :frowning:

About support 2 things :slight_smile:

  1. https://yatse.tv/wiki/yatse-play-store-comments for Play Store
  2. On the other places, I’m way too old to accept disrespect and it won’t change, anyone who talk to me normally will never have any issues, anyone who think I owe them my life because they use a free app or paid 3$ won’t get any respect from me.

Take for example: No thumbnails of albums or artists
One guy come in a place, refuses to read any of the basic rules.
Yet I do take time to answer normally asking for details.
Then the guy continue to act in a not so nice way.
Yet I do take time to answer normally :slight_smile:
And then the guy who totally disrespected start complaining, making me regretting to try to help.
Specially when there’s was absolutely no issue in Yatse.
Best part is that later the guy still continue to write that my attitude was wrong: https://forum.kodi.tv/showthread.php?tid=339103&pid=2806801#pid2806801

This is exactly the kind of guy that sometimes wants me to do like all major company, forward people to the FAQ and only provide minimal automated support.

Respect is two ways and earned, I know in some countries people push the concept of customer is king a little too far, but people needs to remember that using a free without apps ads, or paying 3$ 5 years ago is not really being a customer as soon as you disrespect the author.

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#86

I completely agree that Yatse does far more than any of its competitors. My point was that they have ‘set the bar’ and all you have to do for free is be a bit better, the rest could be paid for.
Now, I don’t suggest you suddenly put all the good features behind a paywall. I am saying that you don’t need to be as generous with the free version as you are.
Everyone who has enjoyed this app isn’t going to walk away because you encourage them to pay by moving the paywall a little bit. Some might, most won’t.
As for not pushing APKs outside of the Play Store… I don’t know about it being right, wrong or just ‘not nice’ but I can point you at one app that I know for a fact does it: Private Internet Access.
Access to their Android app was only available through the Play Store.
Google doesn’t like their built in adblocking and told them it had to be removed. PIA removed the function from the Play Store version and then made it very clear to users that the version available through the PIA website still had the adblock function enabled and suggested people went there if they wanted it back.
To my knowledge, the PIA app is still available on the Store so they still have their presence but they actively and openly suggest downloading the APK from their site.

I understand what you are saying about respect and I agree. I don’t doubt for a second that you have encountered many people who think you owe them something. I wasn’t referring to those times. I felt compelled to bring it up when I saw someone trying to give you exactly the feedback you asked for and mentioned Amazon. You responded that they had hurt you and you didn’t feel they should have done it.
It was a miscommunication from what I saw, but I saw many of them and it feels like a trend.
I’m not going to say more on this topic though as it is likely to take the thread off topic. I don’t want that.

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#87

Just to finish on Kore: I did set the bar, Yatse is 4 years older than Kore and always had things before :wink:
Lot’s of people do not realize that fact so it’s good to remind it from time to time.

About APK the thing is that if I push an APK on website it won’t be able to keep current licences purchased on Play Store. I can do 2 APK that’s not the issue, the issue is that all those who take APK from website would have issues. Keeping both inline would be a tons of works and hacks and could lead to Google ban.
Those days Google bans for anything.
That app description does not talk about the app on the web site, as the app can not advertise it from inside.
This is a companion to a service they can purchase on the website and advertise there, it’s a different story :frowning:

For Amazon I did communicate a lot about that and I’m pissed off every time someone complain about Yatse no more being on Amazon and they feel robbed.
Amazon did contact me a lot and asked me a dozens of time to publish Yatse on their store with many promises like access to Chinese market. I had to do a tons of work to be able to publish there and had to wait that they fix things on their side too.
It cost me a lot of times and money (They are the reason I migrated from Legacy Unlocker to In App purchases) to publish there.
Then they never give access to Chinese market, and one day they removed Yatse from their store without any explanation or details, the guys who supplied me to publish no more answered to emails, no support nothing, just silence. (It was probably just because they banned everything with the word Kodi).

So I did lost a lot of money, I did not have any explanation, they did rob their users. And in the end all falls on me.
I was lied to and robbed, users need to ask Amazon fix their mess. Anyway I hate talking about those … Amazon.

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#88

You did set the bar, but now they have set the bar on what is acceptable for free under their “official” support.
In my opinion, you are shooting yourself in the foot by holding so tightly to giving people so much for free. I REALLY like what you have done but you aren’t helping yourself by giving so much for nothing. I feel there are some nice features that could easily be put behind a paywall without preventing the core functionality of your app. Widgets for one. Maybe allow the main controls but move the ‘Now Playing’ to paid unlock?
As it is I don’t feel like there is any real incentive to pay and that is sad. I’m not saying you should be nasty, just look over what is really needed for good, basic functionality and then see what is left. I’m sure an acceptable balance could be found?

I’ll be honest; the only reason I went looking for something other than Kore was that left and right controls stopped skipping what was playing.
I noticed it didn’t happen in the browser based controls so I looked for a better app. I found the best.
Once I saw the options Yatse has I didn’t consider paying as I didn’t feel the free version provided any limits. I figured you couldn’t provide all of this for free (without ads) if you weren’t getting a good income. So that was that.
If I had been like the vast majority of users I wouldn’t have read the update notes and wouldn’t be here to help.

As for people on another site not having their license carry over to the Play Store version, I understand. That is not an issue in my mind.
I suggested that those people are paying to support development (you make that clear) and while they do that they get access to the monthly build. This build isn’t on the Play Store at all.
Then, the Play Store version is the one already there. That version works the exact way it does now EXCEPT you only update 1 or 2 times a year. This version gives Google their 30% of the unlock payments.
Google can’t tell you how to fund your development and the two versions don’t talk about each other.

Would that not work?

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#89

They also pay for features that they would have to pay again. A version available out of Play Store will require another form of paiement.

Kore offers no support, bugs stays for months :wink: The main issue is really that Google prevent fair competition, because there’s clearly no match between the apps.

I’m still trying to get answers from Google about splitting app and their vague policies that can mean anything. Then I’ll see what I do.

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#90

Hello, I allready made several € 6 payments and I really would consider paying for it on a monthly basis.
I only ask one thing, could you then add the possibility that yatse can be shared with members of my family through the Family library so my kids can use the app also and only I have have to pay a monthly subscription.
Otherwise I find it hard hard to pay 3 times on monthly basis (2 kids) would that be possible and acceptable for you?
Just a kindly request to consider please.
Best regards, keep up the good work !

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#91

Google does not support that for In App sorry.

The legacy unlocker support Familly sharing.

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#92

Small update.

As a first step Yatse 8.8.5 implements recurring donations, if enough people subscribe it will serve as a base to fund ads to promote Yatse.

Splitting the application in 2 apps is currently forbidden by the last Google rules, I’m still trying to get answers from Google on that specific point to know what is really allowed or forbidden as the policy are not very precises.

In all cases thanks again for the support.

1 Like

#93

Hi Tolriq,

Been thinking of this topic for quite some time now and i haven’t been able to make a good choice (yet). Why? I just want a good app without ads, i don’t know how many times up until now i have bought a license for me and one of my family members and i have pushed the “donate now” (or one of my family members) so i guess i don’t care for the €3 or €4 euro cost if the app is as good as yours for the time i am using it.

Furthermore, you know i am willing to put in the extra time and energy to make Yatse a better product by translating and some other handson things. So, what i want is what Yatse has always been: an app without hassle… no ads, no second app, no nag screens or whatever. I will buy the extra VIP premium no nagging no ad version if that means i have to pay 10 euros or more… Yes, i am exaggerating but i want to make clear that the charm of Yatse lies in the fact that once you buy the unlocker (and i think everyone should, even if you don’t use any of the options) it is a GREAT app… I would hate losing it in favour of a light version or ads or…

These are just my thoughts on the subject. I know you have a tough choice to make. :wink:

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#94

I know lot’s of people have talked about subscriptions and everything, but just in case I was not clear during those 7 years:

I’ll never remove anything from the paid users, and paid users will never see ads in current version.
If there’s another app, it will be for other users, or it will be for new features in the current app.
But unless Googles force me too, this app will never stop to provide what it currently provides.

In all cases, even if I stop adding functions to this app, this app will stay and will support newer Kodi versions (unless they break everything as they can probably do :p)

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#95

I think it’s the trend in the world including the be civil servants who suppose to work for us.

I am keen to pay for full version if I can notice the difference as I have paid for bubbleupnp already.

Please send me a link or video showing the difference of paid and free version and I am especially interested in downloading offline content seeing I am using tidal currently as hifi streaming. Thanks

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#96

There’s already a few videos, but Yatse can’t download protected content.

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#97

Hi Tolriq

That is not what I am referring to. But I did more research into your paid version so I am quite satisfied. Just one more question seeing you support Marantz Sr5012 but I have a new version 5013. Please advise if the volume control and other features will work?

Thanks

Brad

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#98

As you can see on that plugin I’m not the author so can’t answer that :slight_smile: He offers support and is active so if it does not work I’m pretty he’ll make it work if you give him what he needs when he asks :slight_smile:

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