Survey: Yatse future, give your opinion!

survey

#21

None of those contacts are public or can be found without knowing someone already there :frowning:

And I’m not skilled enough to handle that over phone in English.


#22

I understand now. The information used to be on the website. Maybe they took it down after the YouTube shooter lady.


#23

The problem I have with paying for a premium model is that there is no guarantee I will continue to receive that.
Case in point… I’ve used yatse for years, and I bought premium through Amazon app store. Then I started noticing less updates on Amazon and now to the point that I don’t think it even exists any longer. So I have paid for the premium unlocker, and now I don’t even have that and I’m using the free Google version. There was never any way that I found to migrate to using the Google play version of my unlocker without paying again. That seemed unfair to me.
My vote would be that if you want to guarantee income, put ads in. I always click on the ads in programs I want to support (I’m probably in the minority though), but because I feel that I lost money once on purchasing the premium unlocker… I would be hesitant to buy again or purchase a subscription basis. But I understand you should be paid for your hard work so I would be OK with ads. Sort of… Since I technically paid for unlocker and I’m still locked :wink:


#24

Well just for the record it seems you missed all the messages about the fact that it’s Amazon that removed Yatse from their store without giving any explanation and refusing all communication about that, there’s plenty of messages about that on the social networks. So it’s not my choice it’s Amazon choice, you should complain to them not me and force them to refund what they stole from you. (Because this is what it is, they asked me to invest to make specific Amazon version, then removed the apps, leading to investment done by me lost and all users losing their purchase).

You need to understand that we are all at the mercy of Google and Amazon and they can do anything they want without any justification or giving support.
What It’m trying to achieve here is to continue to support an app as I did for the last 7 years.

And to be honest I don’t think there’s many free without ads application in the Play Store that have 7 years of monthly updates, so your message is quite hurting for me as you clearly have not seen what I’ve done during all those years to specifically support users.


#25

Tolriq, my $0.02 is going to be a bit different hoping to help fire up some new(ish) ideas.

Idea A (2 apps)…
App 1: Free ‘Lite’ version with Ads (only allow basic stuff, two hosts, etc)
App 2: Full version, No Ads using unlocker key that we obtain directly from you, not Google/Amazon (if they let you back on). I know someone that does this and has for years. He even has a web site that automates all of it - payment and all. *same price you have today

Idea B (2 apps w/ ‘upgrade’ subscription)…
like Idea A but Full app uses a full price + ‘optional’ yearly subscription. The thought is a yearly subscription that is half the price of the price and optional for the user. They could use the existing version forever since they already paid for ‘that version’ but if there are features in a newer version, they’d need to pay a 50% upgrade fee. This would keep some cash flow for you for people that want the a newer Full version. basic bug fixes and such should be in point releases, thus free but when you release a new ‘full’ version … like going from 5.36 to 6.0, they’d have to pay the upgrade fee.

Idea C (2 apps w/ Feature upgrade fees)…
like Idea A but Full app is scaled back for the initial cost and you add payment for some more ‘advanced’ add-on features::
$3 more to add 3 hosts after the initial 3 for OR to add a different type of host (Kodi, Emby, etc).Same cost for each type but they pick one when they do the install and then any additional types cost $3 more.
$3 for streaming over the internet
etc

Also, something else Emby related I want to run by you (app idea) in PM. I’ll PM you later as I gotta run to coach kids soccer


#26

I was giving my opinion on what might be useful… Specifically because programs and entire app stores disappear. I was not even being critical AND I paid for the application previously. I could spend my money on millions of different products and I chose to spend it on your app specifically to support the development. I don’t see why that is quite hurting. I still use your app now, and will continue, but I know it’s not fair for me to pay two times for something. Whether it’s because of Amazon or Google or your choice, I lost out. So my vote/advice from my history with yatse is that you should put ads in the application.


#27

As I said ask Amazon to refund you I can’t. I can’t verify your previous purchase, I can’t do anything thanks to Amazon.

And you said that what I did is unfair that you do not trust me and that you’d support ads but still complains that you have paid and have not the unlocker.

This is a lot of critics and unfair, I think that I’ve more than proven what I did for users over the last 7 years, so telling me my actions are unfair and that you do not trust me are hurting a lot yes.

What Amazon did is more than unfair, what Google is doing is more than unfair, my dedication to users since 7 years is all but unfair …


#28

Lite + other app outside store is a very very very high risk of bans :slight_smile: This is totally against Play Store rules.

For the rest I’ve thought about that, but this is quite hard to put in place with the RERO way I manage Yatse, it’s complicated to decided what / when new upgrade should be made. If I only made update once per Year this would be different.

One solution would be to have higher cost complete unlocker and smaller dedicated licences for cast or offline or plex or emby. But with all the history of Yatse how do I handle the old users without upgrading their unlocker to the new bigger one.


#29

I think this is off topic, but just to clarify. I never said that it was you that took my money unfairly or that the decision to not be on the app store was yours. I just stated the fact that it’s not there any longer. I only came here because in the changelog there is bold red writing about the uncertain future of the app that I really enjoy. Then you asked for us to vote and give our opinions. I’m taking my time to try to give you this feedback that you asked for. I never attacked you personally, and I even gave you examples as to why I voted that way and you have taken it very personally (in my opinion). This whole exchange has made me regret even coming here. You asked for feedback, I gave it. I even said that I have been a financial supporter through Amazon which you clearly understand is not available anymore, and you don’t even say “thanks for the support”. I never said anything negative about you or the app, I didn’t put anything on social media or even ask for a refund. I didn’t want a refund because I thought it would negatively impact you. I don’t want to clog up this forum with back and forth, especially when I was coming from a place of wanting to help. My final two cents (and I acknowledge it’s frustrating when someone tries to get the last word in) but maybe if you approached your users, and the platforms that host your application a little differently and not take it so personally… Maybe you’d get different results. Good luck with everything and I’ll continue to use the free version, hopefully I see some ads in the future so you can continue development.


#30

Hi Tolriq.

I just want to give my opinion on this topic.
I’m a software developer myself and can understand the situation you are in.

I’ve brought the unlocker ~2 years ago to support your amazing work you’ve done and still doing.
The features I’m using are just to browse and start movies/series and to scan over the plotlines - and to start the rescan of my library, nothing else.

I really hate ads.
That’s because they use up the rare space on smartphones, flashing to get your attention and send private information to the advertising company. And last but not least it can be a security risk.
I would never have tested your app if there would have been ads - even in the free version.
Because of this, I voted for the “fully paid app with a trial”.

I would support a premium-subscription model if possible.
Even I don’t use most of the “advanced” features I use the app daily and like the fast but very stable release-cycles and support.

Is the income of your work more like a bonus and do you work on Yatse within your free time
or is this a full-time job?
Because depending on the answer there are different ways the situation needs to (or should) be solved.
(I think it’s the latter as everything looks too professional ;))


#31

Hi Tolrig,

I’ve just created my account to take part in this survey.
i’'ve used Yatse for a long time time and donated a few times. I’m surprised by how few people donate, especially from the UK. I paid for the app in the first place.

I really like the idea of a subscription or maybe patreaon?

Thanks for a great app.


#32

Have you looked at using other app stores ? There are other options other than g00gle play. Search for “android app stores” provides many options. If the most popular apps start using other stores, perhaps it would be a wakeup for g00gle support ? (if they’re not already comatose)


#33

@Noxx Yatse is/was a big part of my revenue source even if not the only one, but everything I do in life I try to do it correctly and at the maximum :wink: No try just do. I never tried to make it the only source and risk all due to early knowledge that Google bots could kill me at any point. But since I love Yatse I do pass a huge time on it including support for all and my wife is not that happy, specially with current situation of time passed without proper income in return. She do not understand passion and I can’t blame her.

@BalsaWood The only viable other store was Amazon and they banned Yatse for being a Kodi related thing without thinking or confirmation, all other stores could only be ads based and would have very very few revenue associated with tons of work to support each store different push ways.

Seems more users are opened to subscriptions that I thought, may I could add this as a donation option as subscription to have more data about that.
One solution could be to offer priority support for a small monthly sub, with private forums, maybe a higher tier with priority discussion about feature requests.


#34

Hi,

just registered because of your request.
I paid for the unblocker.

The different options listed in the survey are not so clear for me to understand, so I did not vote yet.

Nevertheless, here is my opinion (not only about Yatse, but generally about apps):

If an app is good, and I use it a lot, I am willing to pay a ONETIME price. No way I would ever support a subscription model, whatever price it would be.

About the price that I am happy to pay for a good application:

I am ok with prices up to 2 euros.
Everything above, up to 5 euros, makes me think, if I really would need the app. Still, if it is a usefull app for me, up to 5 euros is ok for me then.

Some enthusiasts here in this survey do support a subscription model and they even mentioned prices like 20 euros per year. In my opinion this will never work for a lot of people. No way, ever!

Back to your dislike of ads and nag screens. Well, ads I also don’t like. And I don’t think they would push most of users to buy the unblocker. They would just live with the ads and only few people will pay for an adfree version.

But, what really could work is trial versions with full features working for some time. After the trial period is over, the app switches to REALLY limited features. Then they will decide, if to buy the unblocker or not.

So, that’s my 2 cents.


#35

Subscription could not be the normal unlocker I totally understand that people are not ready for that.
I mean why should user pay more than 3€ once to have monthly updates for 7 years for free.
This is sad but this is current world, people expect too much for free. (Of course we are not talking about 20€ per year, but yearly subscription is the way app should be rewarded when they provide the kind of support and updates Yatse provides).

Anyway here some numbers for everyone:

If you take French normal hours per week and consider Yatse as my Job, this means I pass 1600 hours per year to improve the application you use. (I actually pass more with support)
This means that for 3€ one time, each years you have 1600h of work value for free. Imagine I work at the minimum hourly rate, this would be 15 000€ per year in my pocket. (Doing what I do for Yatse in any other company is at least 3 times that for the record and I would not do extra work on Week Ends).

Now let’s see where the money go when you pay 3€.
30% goes to Google: left 2.1€
20% in medium for EU VAT: left 1.68€
about 50% in country taxes to pay a salary in France: left 0.84€ (Actually a bit more to pay for health insurance but let’s ignore that).
Then 30% of personal taxes if I have enough other revenues: left 0.58€ that I can really use to purchase things.
Price of a basic Nespresso capsule in France: 0.35€

So for 3€ paid I can’t even purchase 2 Nespresso capsule and yet everyone find normal that apps costs no more than 3€ with lifetime updates.

About ads their purpose is not really to make people who don’t pay pay, it’s to have a little more income to pay for ads to gain visibility back on Play Store so that users who seek a good Kodi remote can find Yatse and pay the unlocker if they want to. Current situation even if totally unfair for me was more or less working as long as the application was visible on Play Store. The issue is about how to finance the user acquisition.

Having a free version more limited than Kore would make no sense. But I certainly give way too much for free as still have a ton more things than the bad copy for free.


#36

Hi Tolriq,

taxes are always problematic :wink:
But that is out of question…

I understand you supply all the updates und bugfixes for seven years now. Ok, seeing it like this, receiving more money makes sense. But again, to avoid this “work for free”, you could do it in a way, like most software companies do: release a new version for example every year and then stop updating the previous versions.

Whoever wants new features should buy the new version then. So let’s start with “Yatse v2019” next year. It’s almost like a subscription model, but the users are not obliged to subsribe. It’s their decision to update to a new version each year or not.

Like this, you generate more income without the “subscription trap”. I definitely would pay again as soon as new features are implemented that I would like to have.

What about your problem you have with visibility on Google Playstore?
I just checked with search term “yatse”: you are listed there!

I also checked search term “kodi remote”:
this lists you right after Kore, which I understand as Kore is the official remote.

And finally, search term “Kodi” lists you as fourth entry, below Kodi itself, Kore, and a Kodi configuator.

So where is the problem with invisibility there?


#37

https://www.reddit.com/r/androiddev/comments/9jo89q/the_weirdness_of_play_store_search_results_and/ :slight_smile:

Your solution was discussed earlier and complicated with current Yatse RERO model, building new apps each year would be strange and probably against current Play Store rules. So it would be a new unlocker each year for new features, but new features are every month.
Pushing back new things to once a year would totally change the way Yatse have lived since those 7 years and I’m not sure users would love that change too.
It’s hard to find the line and your previous comment shows that users do not have the necessary information about what maintaining an app really cost and what dev get from what they pay.


#38

Hi there. I 'm using yatse now form many years and payed for it once, I have to admit. Even though I’m using it only to control the raspi which is streaming radio to my stereo or sometimes streaming from my NAS. No TV, video or anything else. (I’m running yavdr for that since it is faster zapping thru the satellite channels. and the WAF-factor is higher :slight_smile: But still I would pay immediatedly 1 or 2 € each month without further thinking about it. We all hate these ads poppin up other apps. Yaste must stay free from adds I think.
I suggest: splitting into two apps a free one with adds and restricted and a full version with an monthly fee and free of adds. Keep up the good work Tolriq ! Yours Jens


#39

I understand now the problem with the Playstore listings. This is really annoying!

Again, MY OPINION about subscription models is clearly defined. I won’t subscribe if I would be obliged to do so.
The opinions on this forum thread (including mine of course) are not represenative. Even if I am convinced that a subscription model will not work for the masses, I might be wrong. Vice versa…

And by the way Tolriq, it seems you drink to much coffee :wink:


#40

If you find a convenient way to subscribe outside of Google Play (without breaking their policies so you don’t risk being banned), I’d be happy that you can skip paying the Google tax, which some time ago would have been considered usury.

Do you have an idea of the % of active users you’ll need to subscribe to keep the lights on?